About feelings.
  • Hi guys, if i had a wish it will be... understanding perfectly a yes or no question from tarot lol just yes or no, would be enough. I would like you to understand it by this two readings i'm going to write here. Thank you everyone :) It's my first discussion here in taroteon forum :) This is for a friend.
    Just note: they're both in a formal relationship.but i think...they never forgot each other for 15 years.


    My friend asked:


    ----DOES HE LOVES ME?------

    cut from the deck: 9 WANDS+ ACE WANDS.

    The present: KING SWORDS (thoughtful man)
    The present: WORLD (action is recommended?)
    distant future: DEVIL (feeling trapped on this relationship)
    recent past: ACE DISKS (a opportunity was created to achieve something that would last, and woul grow)
    distant past: PAGE SWORDS (misunderstandings)
    imediate future: 3 SWORDS (sadness, stress, separation)- she is thinking of letting go this approach idea...cause she is not sure of his feelings right now.
    client's influence: JUSTICE (being just, responsable with other people envolved, also taking the previous decision)
    environmental influences: 5 WANDS (challenges)
    potential outcome card and provides clues as to the influence of change: TEMPERANCE (it will take a while for he to love my friend)
    The last card is traditionally seen as the outcome card: QUEEN DISKS (my friend...or his girl. But as an answer it should be a yes :/ )

    air+earth+earth+earth+air+air+air+fire+fire+earth.
    lack of water: isolation, depression and sickness? (they don't aproach themselves because they're in a relationship with other people, just sharing looks when they see each other)

    Well but it started with AIR and end up in EARTH...."This combination suggests the need to change the surrounding environment" "the earth cannot contain the air. Think of someone losing touch with reality."


    DOES HE LOVES HER?

    cut from the deck: LOVERS + 5 CUPS

    The present: HIEROPHANT (restructing proccess on their marriage)
    The present: CHARIOT (controlling it)
    distant future: 7 WANDS (oposition and things going wrong. fighting to be succeeded)
    recent past: 4 SWORDS (isolation, suffering)
    distant past: ACE SWORDS (starting discussions)
    immediate future: KNIGHT DISKS (things won't change.)

    client’s influence: EMPRESS (love for her? comunicating problems? i don't know this one.)
    environmental influences: JUSTICE (she wants divorce?)
    The next card can be read as a potential outcome card and provides clues as to the influence of change
    STRENGHT (conflicts?)
    The last card is traditionally seen as the outcome card. KNIGHT SWORDS (agressive actions towards her? sudden events entering in his life changing everything?)



    earth+water+fire+air+air+earth+earth+air+fire+air.

    We have all elements here... but now it starts with EARTH and ends with AIR....
    "A need to break free from perceived imprisonment; there’s a certain amount of resentment and contempt for what this person owns – the responsibility has become too much. Perhaps this again shows a need to create something new but at the moment the ‘energy’ is too angry to formulate a constructive plan – they hate where they are in life; but they’re frustratingly dependent on it. A need to accept responsibility." "What you think and what you feel being two different things"



    Thank you guys!!!
    Really a yes and no answer would be enough...i just hope you don't see he loves them both looool
  • Lyanne, hi

    Interesting one.
    My first question is this:

    If you're asking a yes/no question, how come you've worked two spreads that give a big complicated answer full of nuances about past, present, future, hopes, fears, influences and outcomes..? :)

    Me, I'd draw a single card for this then ask follow up questions. I'm lazy that way.
    I just did that, in fact.

    Q: "Does he love me?"
    A: 3C - I'd say that's a yes (but see below).

    Q: "Does he love her?"
    A: JUSTICE - I'd say that's pointing to a more complicated arrangement than simply love or not love. Justice is associated with Libra, a sign of compromise, negotiation and partnership. Love might not be the main issue if these two are good partners, plain and simple. Justice, you might note, is also a card of Karma.

    So what do you ask next? Me, I'd seek further qualification of these answers.
    The 3C says he "loves" her but is that as a potential partner or simply as an old friend he finds it easy to talk to?
    What's really going on in the situation with the "other woman" - what do the adjustments, partnerships and balances of Justice imply and involve?

    What does your friend *actually* want to know?
    What would God-given certainty about "love/not love" mean for them in terms of what they do next in their life?
    Even if love was a given in the situation, are the arrangements even able to change?

    And, most importantly of all, is this the right direction for them to be pursuing in the first place?

    I hope that helps in some way. Looking forward to seeing what other answers people have for you.

    G
  • Ok Gethyn, maybe you're right and i complicated a simple question, but i don't feel like one card can give a certain answer...maybe two of them. I will follow your advice.

    3c- what do you mean by this? i didn't understood sorry :)

    and yes the question about love can be subjectiv...that could mean nothing would change either if the answer was yes for my friend.

    So i asked with two cards:

    Does he loves my friend?
    - 4 of cups + 3 wands: Wishing more...and Waiting for that opportunity.

    Does he loves his girl?
    - Fool + queen pentacles: getting free from her. Wanting a new partner?

    what do you think?

    Help please :|
  • awwwww gethyn i get it now!
    You draw single cards for my questions :') how nice of you!

    So i'd say... 3c- desiring a reconciliation. feeling happy and celebrating.
    Justice- being responsable, and altough i agree with you, he has karma with my friend as well. So i'll take here, being in this formal relationship because it is felt like it is what he has to do.

    Just let me explain why i said before i don't trust in one card to answer a simple question...it is because sometimes the first card represents the question itself, so i need a second card to confirm the answer from the first one, that could simbolize the answer i was waiting for or the question itself (i said this because tarot answers not always what we want but it has his own way to do it.)

    kisses
  • > You draw single cards for my questions

    I did indeed. :) I probably could have made that clearer.

    > sometimes the first card represents the question itself, so i need a second card to
    > confirm the answer from the first one

    Interesting. For myself, if I say to the tarot "Please give me one card in answer to my question" then I assume that's what I'll get and interpret from there. Depending on my question, I may be asking too much for one card to answer clearly, of course. :)

    Where you choose to switch to two cards, that's where I start asking follow-up questions.
    Also, I tend to use three card readings rather than two cards - that way I can bring in elemental dignity and get some shade and 'activity' in the answer - but that's another thing altogether.

    As for your friend's reading, well this is a big situation isn't it?
    We all love a bit of romance...but this thing with wanting to get back together with another woman's man...could it become a little..I don't know...explosive?

    And those cards - my 3C and your 4C-3W - is that love and romance and happy endings...or could it possibly indicate someone open to the idea of an affair..? Prince Charming may well be looking locked into his present relationship (the chains of Justice and all)...and yet...those threes...maybe he wouldn't mind having his cake and eating it...rekindling an old flame on the side perhaps..?

    Is this what your friend wants?
    Does she know what all the consequences might be of her current train of thought?

    I certainly don't know enough to say one way or the other - and remember, also, that I might be talking utter wrong-headed nonsense - but it seems to me that this issue needs a lot more exploring beyond just "he loves me, he loves me not", you know?

    What do you think?

    G

  • Gethyn, :)

    "For myself, if I say to the tarot "Please give me one card in answer to my question"
    I'll use that for the future ;) good tip.
    I give you a example of what i was saying: will i be suceeded in the next project? for example. the answer of one card is Queen wands (normally representing me) and i need another card...6 wands (success) for example. see? :)

    I learned a bit with elemental dignities from taroteon too...and in there we can learn two cards or three cards also...to understand the activity beyond the answer.

    As for the reading, the important thing is to ask an intelligent question, i know the question about feelings didn't give any further information for how both relationships would develop, but it was a good start to get clarity from what is going on, in this case, on this man's heart. :)

    Nice talking to you G :)
    Thanks for the comments.

    Lyanne
  • Hi Lyanne,

    Gethyn always gives good advice :-D

    I also think that this is a very complicated subject. My first impression re. the Devil and 3 swords is that your friend could end up as a long-term "other woman"; a situation whereby she seemingly gets what she wants, but in a very unsatisfactory (and ultimately probably painful) way. Though Justice and Temperance suggest to me that your friend isn't actually looking to go down this path, and I actually feel that 5 & 7 wands and the Pentacle outcome cards indicate that she faces stiff competition from the wife (or equivalent) and that he''' probably stay in that relationship regardless of any loving feelings he has for your friend. But I would think that her exisiting relationship would warrant it's own detailed spread, and perhaps even a spread about what would make her happy in a relationship... neither guy might be the best for her.

    I did come across a yes/no technique that I liked on 78 notes to self: a tarot journal (hope you don't mind the reference Doug :) ) http://78notes.blogspot.com/ ... Which I have admittedly only used once so far, and am yet to know the outcome!! But it's a simple technique of cutting the deck into piles and looking for Aces - fairly black and white which is nice sometimes.

    Tracey
  • Thank you for your wise words tracey :) I agree with your thoughts.

    Thanks for the site, i will look at it ;)
  • Hey Tracy,

    Haha reference away :) . That's what its all about ;-)
  • Lyanne, hello

    Assuming you're not already done, I remembered a spread you might find useful. It typically starts with a question like "Please give me insight about this relationship..." but it will answer other questions too ("What's the situation and future trends..?" etc).

    Deal the cards thus:

    1  2
    3  4
    5  6
    7  8
      9

    You can see there are two columns of four and a ninth card. The left column is for Her the right column is for Him. The ninth card is a summary/prognosis of the whole thing. 

    Interpret as so:

    1 & 2
    Self presentation. She is presenting herself as 1, He is presenting himself as 2.

    3 & 4
    Perception of other. She sees Him as 3, He sees Her as 4.

    5 & 6
    Assessment of the Relationship. She sees the relationship as 5, He sees the relationship as 6.

    7 & 8
    Desires Of/For. What is desired from the relationship but not spoken aloud. She wants Him to be or offer 7, He wants Her to be or offer 8.

    9
    Summary/Conclusion/Prognosis
    The likely upshot.
    More importantly, what the relationship is really all about.

    Pay attention to elemental harmonies and clashes.
    Pay attention to the narrative lines within and between the columns.

    Do you think that might be useful?

    Anyway. I hope the various advice, insight and guidance you get from your readings helps your friend make only the best choices in this matter. 

    May she find precisely the love and happiness she needs, wherever it truly lies.

    Best,

    G
  • G, so nice of you, thanks for sharing, she will appreciate when i tell her i believe :)

    Kisses
  • Gethyn, just one question...what the hell does the tower there? :S

    Her
    Self presentation.3 wands - negotiating. new start.
    Perception of other:8 swords - feeling trapped in fears.
    She sees the relationship as ace disks-strong union that could have a great future
    She wants Him to be or offer: 2 wands - dominion, cause sure there's a lot lack of it.

    Him
    Self presentation.9 cups - eveything he wished for.
    Perception of other:king wands - someone honest, who is Trustworthy and passioned.
    he sees the relationship as: 6 disks - give and take, harmonious.
    he wants Her to be or offer: tower - ?? hmmmm.....rebuild his world from start? destruct her relationship as well? start over, something from the beginning? or....stepping aside forever? i thought about this but the cards are nice on his column. :/

    Summary: strength - physical attraction, wild and passionate ,fiery and exciting, strong unions, inner harmony, desire.
  • The Tower is Mars. Thrusting, macho maleness.
    He wants the relationship to make him feel like Man again (possibly destroying his existing situation in the process).

    I think she's seeing a potential new start; he's seeing it as just what the doctor ordered.
    Notice the tension between his presentation (Mr Dreams-come-true) and his unspoken desires (Mr Tower).

    2W...3W...KW...Strength (also called Lust)...all that fire...I think there may be a bit more sexual tension at play than your initial interpretation is bringing out... ;)

    G
  • Gethyn,
    "just what the doctor ordered. Notice the tension between his presentation (Mr Dreams-come-true) and his unspoken desires (Mr Tower). "

    Can you clarify this more for us G? because we're not american and we don't know this expression "doctor ordered"

    so she was seeying a start of something to build and he was letting himself go because he feels very attracted to her physically and sexually, no matter at what cost but not seeying a future in the end? That sounds crazy man to me :x


    kisses
  • Haha! I'm British not American, but I do apologise for using such odd phrases. :)

    Let me give my interpretation of your cards, perhaps that will be easiest.

    +

    -Self-Presentation-

    On her side we've got the 3W. Fiery, active, associated with the Sun in Aries.
    This is all about starting off something new, about turning your desires into something real, particularly in the context of a partnership.
    It's not an emotional card, but it is forceful and determined. This is about passions.
    The Golden Dawn reading of this card is "Power, strength, magnetism, all generally, though not necessarily - of a sexual nature." Well there you go.
    So. The message she's sending out is that she's very ready for them to get together and that her passion is driving her to find out what will come of it, to find out if it's a mutual desire.

    On his side, there's the 9C. On the one hand, this is a card of being totally satisfied with what you have. It's about balance, happiness and contentment. Associated with Jupiter in Pisces, it's also sometimes called the 'wish-fulfilment card' - good fortune pouring forth. However, there's also a quality of illusion and dreaminess to it - the universe being what it is, nothing can last unchanged.
    So the face he's presenting is of someone who has what she wants. He's coming across as her 'dreams come true'.

    Now, notice the elemental clash. Fire and water. This probably indicates that to her he seems not as happy as he appears in his situation, and also far too passive in the face of her advances. To him, her seeming pushiness is disruptive and perhaps is making him dissatisfied with what he has - it's putting cracks in his mask.

    +

    -Perception of Other-

    On her side, we've got the 8S. This is the classic card of the mind tangled up in its own web.
    She sees him as someone who is just plain confused and fraught with doubt and worry; paralysed by his own thinking. This probably increases the intensity of her 3W - her frustration literally fanning the flames in an attempt to make him come to a decision.

    On his side there's the KW. I think this confirms the earlier reading of the 3W-9C dynamic. He sees her as dynamic, exciting, disruptive...and possibly a bit too pushy for comfort at times.

    +

    -Perception of the Relationship-

    On her side, the AD is a card of beginnings. She sees solid potential and a chance for a new start.

    On his side, we have the 6D, which is quite interesting. This is a card of perfection, of balance and success, carrying an energy of matters settling down into a harmonious arrangement.
    So the question is, does he see their relationship as potentially ideal? I'm not so sure. The reading is about their relationship as it is *now*. And this is disks, not wands or swords...a passive element. Her Ace says new beginnings...but could it be that his 6D says he likes their relationship exactly as it is? A contradiction from him? How very human... ;)

    +

    -Desires Of/For-

    On her side we have the 2W. More fire, but in a simple undeveloped form.
    I think this means she just wants to have him - to make him hers. To be a couple and enjoy the energy and confidence that will bring her. Has she thought beyond that drive, into the realities involved in an actual relationship?

    On his side there's XVI The Tower. As I mentioned, this is Mars. This is explosive renewal and it's very male.
    Their relationship is making him feel like a man. I don't know the ages of the principals, but this could be the classic mid-life crisis or seven-year itch sort of vibe.
    That 9C image could be stifling him - either the reality of it, or the effort of maintaining the lie - and a new relationship would be exactly the medicine he needs to feel free and wild again. Except...that while it might be liberating and energising, it is also explosive and destructive and potentially harmful. Particularly when you mix it in with the raw fire of her 2W and 3W. Fireworks? At least, but maybe even bombs going off...

    +

    -Summary/Prognosis-

    The card here is Strength. This is, again, a fiery card, associated with Leo (ruled by the Sun), and also called Lust. I think this is pretty clear. This is a relationship rooted in heat.
    Strength has connotations of courage and attraction, but also of self-indulgence and surrender to baser impulses. The card is linked with the Hebrew letter Teth. This letter is an image of a snake in a basket. As the Sun represents male power, so the snake represents female power (as in the Hindu goddess Kali). I'm also reminded of some old story I heard somewhere about a snake in a garden. What all this is saying is that this relationship is tricky. It's being initiated by the woman, and however it's wrapped up it is is born out of desire and passion, and that stuff can burn as well as thrill. There is temptation, there is risk, there is potential for excitement and sex, but also for ruin. She's operating out of a desire to feel more powerful in herself, but he is playing a conflicted game of simultaneously wanting to change and wanting to stay the same - perhaps enjoying the attention, but being made to feel dissatisfied with his current situation as a result. In their own ways they both simply want to feel more alive, I think.

    You'll note that this spread is dominated by fire.
    There is perhaps wise guidance there. More careful thinking, more emotional clarity, more practicality is probably required to navigate this situation successfully.
    To paint it as a cartoon: Are these two really following their hearts...or are they simply following the sparks in their underpants?

    --

    So there you go. What do you think?

    G
  • aw g, you're awesome thanks for your time!

    i believe you spoke correctly...
    this situation cannot continue but the two can't step aside easily, even when they try, they pull each other back again.

    Tnhks for your help :)

    ah, they are on their tweenties, he is actually 2 years yonger then her
  • > they are on their tweenties, he is actually 2 years yonger then her

    Ah, so. Hence all the fire and recklessness...

    As I say, I can only hope this works out for the best for everyone involved.

    G

  • G i hope you don't mind but my querent wanted to ask you something:


    "To him, her seeming pushiness is disruptive and perhaps is making him dissatisfied with what he has - it's putting cracks in his mask."

    You are saying that you think her pushiness- for him to express his feelings whatever they are (love or simply a crush) and tell once for all if he wants a beginning or no with her - is making him dissatisfied with his current relationship (unsparkable at this time.) ?


    "Her Ace says new beginnings...but could it be that his 6D says he likes their relationship exactly as it is? A contradiction from him? How very human... ;) "

    You're saying that he likes the way things are currently? Not wanting a change, feeling unhappy in his situation, feeling happy with this conflict situation with my querent, isn't it too contradictory? couldn't it be really that he sees her as potential ideal for a relationship, since he always felt a crush for her since he was a teeneger? And since the tower is envolved on the reading expressing a need to destruction of actual situation that has no strong structure to continue any more?

    The strenght is a fire card, all about passion and desires that's correct...but there are other cards and all have negative connections as well, worse than this one, that always come when its starting a relationship....arrows of love, passion and desire....we all fall in love passionately and then we love for real, maturely :p

    G
    we thank you for everything :)

    My querent no longer was wishing a new beginning when this reading was made... because she felt down by the way he respond to her pressure...but still cards are saying she thinks of it... tarot sometimes are so direct and so outspoken.

  • Lyanne, hi

    I'm tempted not to take those questions on in detail because there's a bigger picture I want to come out to...but I think I will look at them just to explain better where I was coming from.

    Regarding the "pushiness" vs the dissatisfaction...what I'm saying is that his mask of being 'the perfect catch' is placed under pressure by her forcing the issue somewhat. It's not about whether he's really happy or perfect or not; it's about how he's trying to appear to her. Under pressure he's showing cracks, that's all - he's not communicating well, he's showing other sides to himself.

    As for the Ace vs the 6D...you could be right. He could see her as the perfect way out. He could also prefer things the way they are. At the same time. This is not necessarily indicating happiness though. It could be a preference based on fear or confusion or conflicted thinking.

    The spread I used is largely about perceptions and expectations and hidden games made clear. All the cards could be read as 'good' but all the fire cards give such a heightened sense to it all that I think the flipsides can easily come out.

    As you say "we all fall in love passionately and then we love for real, maturely"...but note that you're dealing with a man who seems to have a track record in the area of "falling in love passionately and ending up regretting it bitterly "... Just saying. ;)

    But anyway, here's my main point.
    See that 8S in the reading?
    It's in the slot about how She sees Him. I interpreted this as She sees Him as being all confused and bewildered and not knowing what to do, right?
    OK. But try this on for size:

    Consider that your friend is showing all the signs of being so overwhelmed and confused by her own thought processes that She is literally unable to properly perceive Him at all. The 8S could simply be about her not being able to see the wood for the trees.

    Seems that way to me.

    So here's what I'm going to offer you. This is my own personal method for clearing out confusion and distraction.

    "Please help the querent gain clarity on her situation."

    These three cards describe the crucial aspects of her situation.
    This is the stress point for her:

    AD 8C XIV

    She is at her wits end. She's exhausted, on the verge of giving up, but at a crossroads. She carries fears of losing love, she is at a turning point, in need of rebalancing and emotional reorganisation. She seeks a new start, something real and solid to grow from. The situation is a pressure cooker, though. She is being driven inside herself to try to reconcile the conflicting desires at play and it's draining her still further.

    OK. Sounds about right to me so far.

    This next card is the antidote. Embracing this heart and soul, transforms the crux of the matter described above. Here's the card I drew:

    7D

    The feeling with this card is of Saturn in Taurus. It's called Failure. It has the sense of a massive, impenetrable, immovable obstacle, calmly and dispassionately blocking and crushing out all possible forward progress. The message is simple. Stop. For the love of God, stop and go no further. There is nothing more to be gained from this situation.

    Clear? Make sense? Feel how the antidote shifts and transforms the stress point in one clean stroke?

    ---
    Old joke:
    - Doctor, doctor, it hurts whenever I touch my elbow!
    - Stop touching it. Next!
    ---

    So. Now, as a separate matter, I ask this.

    "What is your oracular advice for the querent?"

    ... KC ...
    XXI 3C
    ... 6C ...

    Here is the interpretation:

    "The situation has been entirely summarised. You have your antidote (the Universe is associated with Saturn. It says, again "Stop that".) This is not the time to seek a relationship, or to lose yourself to the whirl of emotions. Instead you will gain most from leaping beyond all this. Separate your heart from the present situation and by doing so gain emotional mastery over it. By doing this you will be able to let the past be past and achieve genuine emotional transformation. Love will come in its own time. Joy can be yours, but only by allowing yourself to simply slip free from that which seems to bind you here."

    Ask your friend to do a thought experiment.
    Get her first to really notice her feelings if she imagines continuing on a path with this man. Then get to her imagine what it would feel like to let the whole damn thing go. Pretend it's just as possible and easy as it is. Take a deep breath, hold it, release, let go and move on. What would that be like?

    Compare the two.
    Which course feels wisest?

    Best

    G
  • G, thank you so much for being so nice...we weren't expecting this :) you are too kind.
    We get the all point now, we have no doubts...well one still...even knowing this is not good for the querent, and she must leave imediatly of this situation, she still doesn't know...if he likes her, or is just her feelings that exists here on this relationship.

    You have an intuitive answer for this?

    kisses
  • Lyanne,

    "What are the likely consequences for the querent if she continues on this path?"

    8W KC XVI Tower

    Hopes for love and romance brutally shattered, and in a very short space of time too.
    Let me quote you a text-book interpretation for the KC in this kind of severe ill-dignity:

    "Dishonesty and debauchery. Sorrow through love. Lack of joy and happiness; confusion. Violence, treachery."

    Not only that, but look at this - the KC was the potentially good outcome in the last reading, the oracular advice. Her escape route into actual emotional regeneration and freedom? Y'know - 'happiness'? Wrecked. Gone. Pft.

    I mean this in the kindest possible way, but I have to say that in my opinion your querent is now being a very, very silly girl and she is best advised to be extremely careful with her next steps.

    In my experience the Universe likes to say 'yes'. If you keep asking for something - even if it's really dumb and really harmful - eventually the Universe is just going to shrug its shoulders and let you have it.

    G
  • yes g i think she is being silly questioning the tarot still after knowing all this, the advice we can gave to her, we already did...now it's up to her. I believe she will make the right decision :)

    thanks for your time
  • G,
    About this new spread you taught me, i was working on it cause i think it is great giving clarity about relationships.

    I did one and i would like to have your opinion if you don't mind.

    Of course this is for a different couple.

    self-presentation:
    Her:3 swords- suffering.
    Him: ace wands- Giving a new impulse to the relationship.

    Perceptions:
    She sees him: King wands - a honest and creative man.
    He sees her: Justice - a honest and balanced person.

    assessment of relationship:
    She sees it like: 6 wands - victory, sucessful relationship.
    He sees it like: 2 wands - he dominates the relationship.

    desires:
    She wants him to be or offer: Ace cups. a new beginning.
    He wants her to be or offer: 7 cups. Becoming more dreamy about future together.

    Conclusion:
    Hanged man: self-sacrifice.

    air+fire
    fire+air
    fire+fire
    water+water
    water.

    Do you think this couple will solve their problems and reach happiness together?
  • Well, hello again

    I didn't see you down here at the bottom of this thread. :)

    Well let's take a look at what we've got here then...

    Self-presentation
    Yes, looks like she's playing the role of the broken-hearted, this-isn't-what-I-signed-up-for type. He's bringing the spark of fresh passion to the mix.
    If this is a new relationship he could be coming to the rescue of the damsel in distress but I infer that it's an existing relationship, so she's probably been let down once too often and he's keen to give it another go or otherwise make a new start.

    Perceptions of other
    She could see him as honest and creative, sure, but also charismatic, impetuous, short-tempered and hot-headed maybe.
    He sees her as...balanced? Hmm, I don't know. Maybe (Justice being linked to Libra) he thinks she's still able to be related-to and talked with. Or perhaps sees a need for formal negotiations. It's more of the we-can-work-it-out vibe perhaps; maybe also (if the 3S wins out, I suppose) a recourse to the law.

    Assessment of the relationship
    Yep, she thinks there's still something there - or something to be salvaged. She retains a hope, at least. He thinks there's still a spark to be kindled...although the 2W does come with more than a hint of conflict and argument too. And yes, he probably sees himself as having the upper hand in that arrangement.

    Desires
    That Ace is love, surely?
    The 7 of cups...not so dreamy by my reading. The attribution of Venus in Scorpio carries more of the sense of self-indulgence, self-gratification, hedonism and pleasures in general. The flipside is that it also speaks of the need for proper discrimination and good decision-making. Perhaps he just wants what will make him happy?

    Conclusion
    Self-sacrifice, yes, perhaps. Also illusion and (self)-deception, enforced loss, fatalism. This is a very passive card, very watery (it is Primal Water, that which sustains, dissolves and washes clean). He hangs there, waiting for the end. This relationship isn't really going anywhere I think. The Hanged Man speaks of acceptance of conditions. It speaks of submission to circumstance. In the context of a relationship, it can often speak of the value of accepting the need to separate.

    So the summary of this snapshot is that the relationship is pretty stagnant. He's trying to reawaken it, although not necessarily for purely selfless reasons. They both think there's something to be worked at, or argued out anyway, but with the watery conclusion dousing off the fire and no disks to ground things out in actual results...can it be a happy ending?

    "Do you think this couple will solve their problems and reach happiness together?"

    This spread won't really answer that, and I don't know enough context to say for sure, but let's see if the cards can suggest anything based on that question:

    I The Magus -- PrC -- 6D

    Answer: Perhaps, although it will take a lot of good communication and genuine emotional intelligence, especially from him. That 6D holds out hope, although it is weakened by the air of the Magus and possibly even by the airiness of the PrC (he is the Airy part of Water; cleverness applied to emotions for good or ill). It's not a sure thing, anyway. The challenge for them is to achieve an actual transformation of their relationship. The extent to which they can be honest and open with each other - not too clever, not trying to win points or play dirty tricks - will dictate their chances of building something worthwhile together if that's what they want.

    Agree? Disagree? Any use to you?

    G
  • G, you're too nice, i didn't deserved so extended comment, you've helped a lot till now. I just was waiting for a small insight of yours :) but thanks.

    Actually they are married. (so that might justify the Justice card there, it's a formal relationship.)
    But like all relationships that cross moments of poor communication, come problems.

    "Self-presentation
    Yes, looks like she's playing the role of the broken-hearted, this-isn't-what-I-signed-up-for type. He's bringing the spark of fresh passion to the mix."
    correct!

    "She could see him as honest and creative, sure, but also charismatic, impetuous, short-tempered and hot-headed maybe. "
    correct!

    "Yep, she thinks there's still something there - or something to be salvaged. She retains a hope, at least. He thinks there's still a spark to be kindled...although the 2W does come with more than a hint of conflict and argument too. And yes, he probably sees himself as having the upper hand in that arrangement."
    correct!

    about desires i think it's a little confused for us both lol :p
    but i think the 7 cups there might suggest addiction.

    "The Hanged Man speaks of acceptance of conditions. It speaks of submission to circumstance"
    yes, separation is not a option.

    "it will take a lot of good communication and genuine emotional intelligence, especially from him."
    he does it already.

    "The challenge for them is to achieve an actual transformation of their relationship. The extent to which they can be honest and open with each other - not too clever, not trying to win points or play dirty tricks - will dictate their chances of building something worthwhile together if that's what they want"

    I think this couple here will make it, but they'll have a lot of work to achieve that. And yes a transformation on all levels is needed.
    It sounds like she still have hope but she is disconnected somehow of this relationship(wishing something new 3sw+ace cups-agree?) and he's trying to connect things like before.

    kisses :)
  • > about desires i think it's a little confused for us both lol but i think the 7 cups there
    >might suggest addiction.

    Ah, so. Yes, addiction...in a relationship perhaps we might call this "dependency", maybe?

    > "The Hanged Man speaks of acceptance of conditions. It speaks of submission to
    > circumstance"
    > yes, separation is not a option.

    OK, so less of the loss and betrayal, more of the "we have no choice except to work this through".

    >It sounds like she still have hope but she is disconnected somehow of this relationship
    > (wishing something new 3sw+ace cups-agree?) and he's trying to connect things like
    > before.

    I think the key thing to note here is the disconnect between what she wants out of the relationship and what he's offering.
    That Ace of Cups - love as a sustaining, rejuvenating force - is what will remedy the 3S.
    But look at what He's doing: She wants water but He's giving her...fire and air!
    Genuine, enthusiastic, let's-just-sit-down-and-work-this-out but not in tune with the real need. His emotional content is all about "I can't live without her".
    But in all seriousness this is highlighting the advice about emotional intelligence.
    He needs perhaps to pick up the romance. Remember the early days. Go on dates. Get back in touch with each other, reconnect with feeling not just try to "work things out".

    That's all without knowing the situation, of course. What do you think?

    G
  • G, can i take you with me? :p i'll find a little space on my bag for you :PPP

    You are right once again...it's that what is missing, and hopefully that will make a difference.

    You're too cool.
    kisses
  • Gethyn, can you help me interpret this card on it's position? :

    7 & 8
    Desires Of/For. What is desired from the relationship but not spoken aloud. She wants Him to be or offer 7, He wants Her to be or offer 8.

    DEATH + MOON

    I know death means an ending of the relationship...but i don't get the meaning of the moon there....maybe requiring sensibility?

    Lyanne
  • Oh, hello again. :)

    Interesting pair of cards.
    Hard for me to know for sure without a context for the reading but, yes, Death is most likely...well, death. She wants the relationship to end; fair enough.

    The Moon is about confusion, deception, the hidden and unseen, all things unconscious and beneath the surface. Seems to me it might be an indication that He literally doesn't know (or can't admit, or is actively concealing) what it is He wants. There's a whiff of dissatisfaction and fearfulness about the Moon too - maybe He's been down this road too many times and feels He knows where things are going...and doesn't want to go there again?

    Any use?

    G
  • Hello G,
    thanks for being such a great help, everytime i need your advices :)
    You are too sweet.

    the context of the reading to bring more clarity to that thought is:

    Knight swords + wheel of fortune
    (i saw it like: arguments + wanting a change)

    page cups + 2 cups
    (sees him like a romantic partner; sees her like his partner) There is a relationship, between them.

    4 cups + ace swords
    ( she sees the relationship as bored and dissatisfied; he sees it anymosity, separation, problematic discussions)

    death + moon
    so i saw she is being agressive(knight sw), dissatisfied(4cups), and now wanting an end.
    And i saw him like wanting a change(wheel), possibiliy cutting this link between them (ace swords) but now being affraid to release himself or not knowing what he wants from this relationship.

    Hermit as summary... tells us the need of being alone, separating each other. for both i think.

    What do you think ?

    Lyanne

  • Seems OK to me - possibly slightly heavy emphasis on the splitting up angle, but if the surrounding situation is a relationship going through some rocky times maybe that's fair enough.

    Coming at it cold, I might have gone with a sense of love and romance still present or possible, but the relationship getting stale and both of them wanting things to change in order to keep things alive but not sure how to achieve it.

    You know more about the couple than I do, of course, so your interpretation will be rooted in that knowledge.

    The Hermit, though, is not merely retreat and separation from the world, but a turning inwards in order to find illumination. Could the summary be pointing to the fact that, in a reading full of nothing but air and water, they both need to take a step back and identify what's important to them? How much of their problems are real and how much is just drama? Are things breaking down or just in need of maintenance? He needs to understand and get clear on what he actually wants. She needs to separate her emotions from the larger picture ("But I love him..." isn't a always good basis for important decisions).
    From there they can decide how they want to move forwards, whether that's together or apart.

    Any use?

    G
  • Yes G, i agree with you, the couple is having a hard time but i think they might understand each other at least for more a while :). I think you did a good approach when saying "a turning inwards in order to find illumination." maybe they really need a time to think what they want and then decide. :)

    You are awesome, thank you once again.

    Lyanne

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